Help on Rates?

[OU- BOBCAT]

I did a half day shoot for the New York Fox affil... I work for the Ft. Myers/ Naples Fox. I need to bill the NY station but my question to you all is what to charge? I used the station equipment so the only thing that was hired out was me. The shoot was a little over 4 hours and had 2 locations. The first location was an indoor sit down interview and required extensive lighting. Any help would be great!

 

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by OU- BOBCAT:
I did a half day shoot for the New York Fox affil... I work for the Ft. Myers/ Naples Fox. I need to bill the NY station but my question to you all is what to charge? I used the station equipment so the only thing that was hired out was me. The shoot was a little over 4 hours and had 2 locations. The first location was an indoor sit down interview and required extensive lighting. Any help would be great!

If you did the shoot already...you have put yourself in a poor position.

You should have ironed out the pay details before the job. Doing it afterwards puts you in a very weak position.

Your best bet is to call them up and ask they what they are paying. Just because you did the job already doesn't mean they are going to pay you whatever you think is "right".

Bottom line...you did a half day shoot. Labor only. Try and get anywhere between US$100 and US$150 for your labor.

The gear is something else. I assume the station knows you used the gear? FOX may be thinking the whole thing was a tradeout. The gear and YOU for a half day from the station. They may be thinking you'll just bill your own station in the form of overtime and they aren't involved.

Again, a lot of this could have been smoother if you'd negotiated the pay before doing the job.

[ July 12, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Lensmith ]

 

[Baltimore Shooter]

$100 to $150?? No way! half day minimum should be $200-225, with full days being $300-$400, labor only of course. Gear is diferent. That may depend on what arrangements were made with Fox NY and your station. Maybe they thought you a were freelancer. If so, you should try to get soem gear rental out of it, if it's okay w/ your higher-ups. They may want to split it with you, take it all for themselves, or give all to you (hopefully). But as Lensmith said, all the financila detals should have been worked out ahead of time. Please remember it for the future. Good luck to you.

Warren

 

[Icarus112277]

Warrens right get at least 2 bills, I'd shoot for 250.

But Lensmith makes a great point- NEVER do a job before establishing terms

 

[OU- BOBCAT]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[Run&Gun]

These guys are right, nothing less than $200.

 

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Baltimore Shooter:
$100 to $150?? No way! half day minimum should be $200-225, with full days being $300-$400, labor only of course.

With all due respect Warren...the rates you quote would be fine for a person with many years of expereince. Maybe this person has those years, I don't know.

To think, automatically, any camera person anywhere, should get your network level rates for day work, sorry, half-day work, is unreasonable...not to mention unrealistic.

This person does not have their own gear. They obviously don't have basic business experience to negotiate their rate before performing the service. I see several areas where the ball was dropped and, quite possibly, this person won't see a dime directly from FOX. I hope they do get paid but...I also know broadcast networks will use local affiliate personel and equipment believing they won't be writing any checks. They'll assume any extra pay will be covered by the company which owns the gear and is their affilliate. I hope I'm wrong.

Just because a person does freelance work, without gear, somewhere on the planet, does not mean they automatically deserve a network level camera rate.

My comments are not meant to slam OU Bobcat or his/her professinoal abilities.

 

[Nino]

I can see that John (Lensmith) really knows the way this business works.
This actually brings up a good point. As most freelancers chastise everyone that charges less than other, few realize that affiliates are the worst of the under-cutters. They work for little or even nothing. Some allows their shooters to use the stations gears (not much of that anyway) so they can supplement and justify the ridiculous and embarrassing salaries. When an affiliate call another affiliate instead of a local freelancer is usually because of money. With my name being on many databases I often get calls from affiliate. The second question after “are you available?” is “how much”. The conversation usually ends quickly with “we’ll let you know if this will happen”. It always does but not with me there.

OU-BOBCAT (where do you guys get these names, I feel like I'm talking to my cat)if you are going to invoice FOX directly, make sure that they send you all the necessary paperwork and PO#s BEFORE you send the invoice, or the check will take long time to arrive.

 

[Run&Gun]

After looking at the original post again, I think he did the work for a FOX affiliate , which unless it's an O&O, big FOX has nothing to do with him getting paid, it's the station itself he'll have to deal with. Hopefully the NY station didn't think this was a trade out with a "sister" station.

 

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Run&Gun:
Hopefully the NY station didn't think this was a trade out with a "sister" station.

Years ago, and a few times afterwards ,I had to learn the same lesson OU Bobcat is learning now.

As a young photographer in Oklahoma City, I worked for a producer with ABC 20/20. She wanted an interview shot. I was too hesitant to discuss money. It was more exciting for me to just be shooting for the show.

I don't even remember if I finally got paid. My stuff aired on 20/20. My mom was proud!

My point is no one can assume they are going to be making big city/network bucks just because they are momentarily working for a big city/network production.

I suggested the US$100 to US$150 rate because it was "safe". There would probably be no hassles or delay because a person had to justify the price.

A suggestion to others who might find themselves in the same situation as OU Bobcat in the future.

Obviously talk about the pay rate before you roll a frame of tape but...OU Bobcat might have had better luck asking for cash. A crisp pair of hundred dollar bills, or even a single Ben Franklin, might have been an easy sell. Obviously a less expensive price but nothing beats having cash in hand over the probability of waiting months for a rather small paycheck. You can count on them taking taxes out unless you have an IRS business number.

I offer clients a cash or billing price. There's a one hundred dollar difference between the two quotes... but it streamlines my cashflow, saves me hassles and worry, waiting to see if and when a check will arrive, plus it's resulted in a higher volume of work for me.

A crew day rate is never going to be the same around the US or world. We all have different levels of expences and that affects what we charge for work. Some places are more expensive to live than others. That gets reflected in how much people get paid for work. That's life in an open, free trade market.

I'm already considered the highest priced news camera crew here in Nicaragua. I lose work because of it. I still don't have a day rate equal to many in the US yet I make a living and stay in business. It's not always easy but I've survived eight years freelance...so far

My reality is no different than OU Bobcats or others. Factor in equipment, financial risk, family obligations and you end up seeing the nuances of how a "standard" dayrate is never going to happen.

We each have a different balance between life, work and expenses. To be hundreds or thousands of miles away and assume a certain level of pay is to be expected...and ultimately paid...is not a viewpoint based in reality.

If you're going to do freelance work, never forget...it's a business. Wherever you live.

1. Negotiate a price.

2.Deliver a quality product.

3.Get paid in a timely manner.

4.Pay your bills.

5.Be open for business the following day.

There are lots of ways to make all five happen and stay in business. Leaving out any one of those five "basics" and no business can survive.