When should I expect payment?

[nocophotog]

I recently sold some news footage that made national headlines and was wondering when I should expect a check in the mail. The invoices went out on November 28, 2008.

NBC?
FOX NEWS?
CNN?

Also, when should I start sending out "past due" notices?

Thanks!

 

[Shootblue]

also, when should i start sending out "past due" notices?

lol.........

 

[Horonto]

90 days????

 

[Baltimore Shooter]

So were these first time clients? Let me give you 3 little letters to think about for the next time...

C.O.D

Let me guess, you didn't have a contract that stated the usage rights either (number of times, length of usage, any exclusivity, couldn't be sold to another entity, etc.). That's a great way to get screwed.

Warren

 

[Larry R. Erickson]

When I took business classes, the standard was 30 days.....

Guess how old I am....

For those you listed 45 - 60 days is more common.

With NBC if you dont get it after 60 days you might want to send a little reminder to make sure they didnt loose you, since they used to do everything out of Florida. Yep, maybe even send it a little sooner so that you can pay your rent before 90 or 120 days passes.

What Baltimore Shooter stated about usage rights is absolutely correct! Hopefully you did, if not keep an eye out and make calls/send bills if your video appears elsewhere. I once had a story go out to ABC affiliates and it found its way to Oprah. Of course they kindly paid for their use.

Its good to put up a slate with your name at the beginning/end or put up a graphic with your name/company name so there isnt any confusion about who created the footage.

The point about C.O.D however is not correct for breaking news with the clients you mentioned. Please refer back to business 101 and 30 days billing.

 

[Baltimore Shooter]

The point about C.O.D however is not correct for breaking news with the clients you mentioned. Please refer back to business 101 and 30 days billing.

I don't know why not? They want it they pay for it, check [or credit card] for tapes, as Nino said in another thread.

First time clients pay by the end of the shoot, before the tapes are handed over.

Warren

 

[ian515]

I don't know why not? They want it they pay for it, check [or credit card] for tapes, as Nino said in another thread.

First time clients pay by the end of the shoot, before the tapes are handed over.

Warren

I think he is referring to breaking news situations.
and not everyone has a credit card machine. or the ability to go pick up a check personaly.

 

[Capt. Slo-mo]

CNN? Try 5-6 months...

 

[Run&Gun]

I have honestly never heard of a (US)network that pays up-front or at the end of a shoot. I wouldn't really worry about getting stiffed by a major network, but getting paid "quickly"(if you're not a regular in the their system), is another thing. My main network client, used to take between 45-60 days to pay until I signed up for direct deposit, now less than 30 days is not uncommon.

Don't ever threaten, always be nice. Say that you're just checking to see if the invoice got lost. I actually forgot to invoice for a shoot(5 months) and sent an email and asked if it had possibly gotten lost. Of course they couldn't find it because my dumb@$$ never sent it. They just chalked it up to getting lost in the shuffle, which does happen from time to time. Emailed it in and got paid in about a week/week and a half. It's like I tell a producer I work with, "You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar".

 

[Astocker]

Run&Gun's right. Don't invite people to spit in you salad. NBC cuts the check on the 75th day of the invoice and then sends it to the mail room. Look for it in 90. Most of the rest are the same now. Except Al Jazeera English, they simply don't pay you.....ever. Feel free to piss off the true deadbeats.

 

[2 Hungry Dogs]

While getting paid at the end of the shoot is nice, and a good idea for new clients, unless you are ready to take credit cards it's not realistic on a spot news basis with the major networks,

For those situations I always make sure I at least have an email that stipulates that they are asking for it, and the price we negotiated, along with anything else that seems important at the time.

As for getting paid, a technique that has worked very well for me recently is to call up and tell them that "my accountant sent me a report of the outstanding invoices and yours was on it, can you look into it for me." It doesn't work on everyone, but it's a great nonconfrontational way of saying"Where $%&* is my money?"

 

[must-c-tv]

Don't want to hijack the thread - just wanted to back up what Astocker said.

Do not ever work for Al Jazeera English.

They do not pay.

I don't care about their politics, location, audience ...

They just don't pay. I know half a dozen shooters who have been screwed - and reporters, producers etc on staff that don't get expenses reimbursed.

OK - back to the thread about US networks now....

 

[BNVN]

When to get paid...

Well since I run a stringer company I deal with this all the freaking time.

NBC, all payments come from India. Yes, GE outsourced the accounting to India. 90 - 120 days is early for payments.

CNN, they have been getting better but you need to document EVERYTHING and if EVERYTHING is in order, about 60-90 days.

ABC is about 60 Days if you have everything in order.

CBS holds the record for longest late at almost 3 years past due before they paid up. Chuck at News Path hates me now because I kept bugging him about payments and he was pissed that I kept bugging him because someone in accounting messed up.

Fox News, 4 - 6 months is what we have been running.

A.P. about 60-90 days.

If your looking to make a living off selling video, good luck. I spend a good deal of time on bill collections and it sucks!

 

[Astocker]

The only the system works with networks is when you get a steady stream of work. Except for Al Jipya, the rest eventually pay, so each job is like money in the bank. After the first 90 days or so, the cash flow issues aren't that bad if you are planning for it ...... and the work keeps coming.

It's the occasional network job that can be a pain. Don't take the job if you need that money in less than 90 days - it ain't comin'. This is why there used to be unions. But those days are long gone (although for some reason I still pay dues???????)

 

[Square Circle]

While I've never done freelance video, I've done a lot of freelance still photography. Unfortunately, many organizations take 60-90 days to pay. I've never heard any honest justification for their payment time frames.

Once, I shot a freelance job for the Chicago Tribune, and I had to fill out two forms in order to get paid. I returned the forms immediately. After 30 days, I still hadn't received their check. My contact there claimed that she needed more information from me. Yes, the exact same information that was on the two forms that I already had sent her. She claimed it was necessary because the forms were for another department.

My point is that creative people accept abuses because many of us believe that if we don't somebody else will. If we don't work for less, somebody else will, especially those with less experience or ability.

Plus, many shooters don't have the best business practices. How many shooters that you know do what Baltimore Shooter mentioned, "a contract that stated the usage rights either (number of times, length of usage, any exclusivity, couldn't be sold to another entity, etc)."? How many include an invoice and delivery memo with their footage? How many ask about the payment terms when considering an assignment? Do you copyright your footage?

Would NBC, CNN, ABC, CBS , Fox wait patiently for 60-90 days or 4-6 months after invoice for you to pay them for advertising?

You can use paypal.com to accept payment from anybody that has access to internet. It's not just for internet purchases like eBay.

If anyone is interested, I'll post some business practice articles when I see them. Let me know. Also, the ASMP has a few books on business practices.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread. Shooters taking beat downs just sets me off.

 

[Baltimore Shooter]

Thank you Square Circle for saying posting those articles, that would be greatly appreciated.

And your paragraph about accepting abuse is so true. People in this business, and creatives in general HAVE to start getting tough and "Man Up" if you want these abuses to stop, because the unions who represent us certainly aren't. If WE, the creatives don't supply the work, TV will be nothing but RADIO. So WE have the power, strength in numbers.

Although I've been saying this for so long, even I feel like a broken record. But then, I also said in 2002 that the housing market would collapse, nobody listened to me then, I don't know what makes me think people might listen to me now.

Warren

 

[Astocker]

Would NBC, CNN, ABC, CBS , Fox wait patiently for 60-90 days or 4-6 months after invoice for you to pay them for advertising?

Shooters taking beat downs just sets me off.

If only it were that simple. In the case of the networks - just like WalMart - they set a corporate-wide policy that applies to all vendors. NBC doesn't pay anyone till 75 days unless you are payroll. We could all stand together as news crews but we'd just be a gnat's ass to GE. And if you thought news management doesn't care, try the board room of a mega corporation. As more companies become consolidated, the more removed management is from the workers. Without the unions, we are about as powerless as it gets. But the weird thing is we have unions, and they can do nothing for us. They took us out on strike in the 80's and we came back to way less than we had before.

If someone has an idea as to how to get around this mountain, we're all anxious to hear about it.

 

[Baltimore Shooter]

Don't want to hijack the thread - just wanted to back up what Astocker said.

Do not ever work for Al Jazeera English.

They do not pay.

I don't care about their politics, location, audience ...

They just don't pay. I know half a dozen shooters who have been screwed - and reporters, producers etc on staff that don't get expenses reimbursed.

I heard Al Jazeera English pays their staff Photogs $120k/yr. If so, have they had trouble with thier paychecks or is it not true at all?

Warren

 

[Astocker]

I heard Al Jazeera English pays their staff Photogs $120k/yr. If so, have they had trouble with thier paychecks or is it not true at all?

Warren

I highly doubt that. Staff doesn't make that kind of money unless it includes bennies and OT. I'm sure it's possible to make that kind of money (a lot of local folks are in that territory in LA) but not on 40 hour work weeks. Plus they have a new rule at AJ that there is no overtime until you hit 40 hours in a week. So on Fridays they can look at your hours and send you home early to avoid the OT for that week.

They pay staff by payroll (W2) and that is governed by State/Federal law. Freelancers are protected by nothing except small claims court. That's why we are saying don't work for them - they will screw you and take their chances that you won't take them to court. They are counting on a bottomless pool of cameramen to keep tapping into. Use 'em, burn 'em, toss 'em.

Don't ever work for Al Jazeera.

 

[Square Circle]

Change is never easy. The only way to attempt to change the delays in payment is by having everybody reading from the same playbook. In my opinion, it starts with videography students. Do all the schools and universities teach basic, sound business practices to future shooters?

Do shooters discuss payment arrangements when accepting assignments? What do you need to do in order to get paid? What steps do you take? Who gets the invoice? Do you need to send a W-9?

If a company tell you that they pay in 90 days when offering the job, you can decide to accept their terms or counter offer with your terms. Negotiation is part of the process. I think many of us see job offers as take it or leave it, sometimes it is take or leave it, but you have to attempt to state the way you do business.

I bet when we get a phone call offering work, the person offering the freelance job doesn't mention what steps you need to take in order to get paid. It's happened to me. All we want to know is how much.

You mention that networks have corporate policies that determine when they pay vendors. I'm sure if they want your footage there might be some flexibility in rules that seem set in stone.

I'll post links to a few articles from PDN. I hope it's not against the rules. Here's one.

http://tinyurl.com/9kdmtr

Here's an excerpt:

Get Your Money Faster

Getting clients to pay your invoices faster is another way to reduce your risk of running out of cash. Harrington pre-bills late fees on his invoices, a practice he started 12 years ago. If the client pays within 30 days, they can deduct the 10 percent administrative fee. He says that 90 percent of his corporate clients pay after 30 days. “It was frustrating. My clients were not paying me on time.”

Another strategy is to get clients to pay your expenses up front. Harrington does that. So does Jack Reznicki, a commercial photographer in New York. “I’m not a bank; money costs money,” he says. “I’m more than willing to wait on my fees, but the stylists are not waiting on my fees.”

This is in January 2009 PDN. I'll double check tomorrow.

Negotiating Tips for a Tough Economy

January 02, 2009 Negotiating is the fine art of getting the best deal you can for an assignment, whether it's to cover a local event or shoot an international ad campaign. [...] photographers often leave money on the table or agree to bad terms because they lack negotiating skills. "In a down market economy, people say 'Yes' too quickly, and they undersell themselves," says rep Gregg Lhotsky of Bernstein & Andriulli in New York.

Even though the articles are photo based, it's the exact same principal.